Andrew Gough's Arcadia

André Douzet remains one of the highest profile researchers in the Rennes-le-Château genre. He’s also one of the most controversial.

Douzet’s most significant contribution to the study of Rennes-le-Château is his discovery of a topographical Model, alleged to have been commissioned by Bérenger Saunière, shortly before his death in 1917. The Model illustrates the primary sites associated with the biblical Passion of Christ in Jerusalem, including the location of two notable tombs; that of Jesus Christ and his uncle, Joseph of Armatheia. Douzet’s controversial research concluded that the Model did not portray a landscape in Jerusalem, but rather an abandoned village called Perillos, near Perpignan, in the South of France.

Douzet has also championed the notion that Saunière traveled to Perillos and beyond, to Lyon, where he was involved in a variety of religious and esoteric societies. His recent work has explored the veneration of Egyptian artifacts in caves and churches in and around the Pyrenees.

His ongoing research is published on Société Perillos, a popular multi-lingual web-site dedicated to the study of relevant esoteric subjects.

Logo of the Société Perillos website

Douzet’s books are available on Amazon and include:

Saunières Model

Secret Vault

Wanderings of The Grail

Criticism of Douzet has mounted over the years, due to the fact that he has refused to produce supporting evidence for his provocative claims. I recently met Douzet at his home near Perillos and documented my impressions of the encounter. The following interview was conducted soon after, in July of 2007. According to Douzet, his critics will soon be silenced as he prepares to reveal the proof they have been waiting on for over a decade.

André, welcome to 17 Questions.

1. How has your life changed since discovering what is arguably the most important relic in the Rennes-le-Château mystery – Bérenger Saunière’s Model of the Passion of Christ?

In the beginning not much changed. I had discovered the last thing Saunière ordered, and at first this did not change the focus of my research. Before long however, it was the beginning of another search, more accentuated. After a few months, then a few years, everything changed, and I realized that I had discovered the end of Saunière’s quest.

André, with Saunière’s Model

Name / Title on the Model

2. For some time you believed that the Model depicted the topography around Rennes-le-Château. What first led you to look in Perillos and how did you know that this was the region the Model depicted?

Before the discovery of the Model we had already stumbled upon Perillos. Our research led us there. We knew that Saunière had gone to Durban-Corbières. He had recuperated certain archives which the lords of Durban had recovered themselves. There were indications that priests, including Bigou, had been interested in that area.

Church Statue - Durban

After the Model was recovered, for a period of almost two years, we believed it represented the landscape around Rennes-le-Château, as it could not be Jerusalem. We compared it with Jerusalem, but it was impossible. It did not correspond, despite what was written on the Model. Hence we thought that it was Rennes-le-Château that Saunière was referring to. We searched for two years around Rennes-le-Château, but found nothing. We were helped by our friends from Terre de Rhedae and several times we thought we had identified the landscape, but had not.

Then, we were asked to put the Model on loan for an expo in the Domaine (the Villa Bethania) in Rennes-le-Château, which was run by Jean Luc Robin at the time. A double of the Model was being made, so in case of an accident or theft there would always be a backup. And to accomplish this, a negative mould had to be made. It was when we were looking at this (mould) that we saw for the first time that the Cistern on the Model was actually the Roc Redon (a unique landmark in Opoul-Perillos), which we had known about for a long time. That’s when we knew.

Opoul Sign Post – Opoul Castle in the distance

Roc Redon, just outside of Opoul – André’s Model marker

3. Why after all this time (12+ years) have you not published the evidence linking the Model with Saunière? Would that not hush the constant drone of skepticism?

Indeed. In the beginning, people doubted me as they “knew” I made “Models”. But this was when I was young, and they were Model airplanes, with a little motor. So they accused me of fabricating the Model and my reputation as a “Model maker” stuck.

But Jean Luc Robin knew about antiquaries and realized that the Model was old. We know that the foundry was going to make a bronze Model. With the order, there were two documents written by Saunière. Two other pieces of information had disappeared. We had some of the replies of the foundry, the doubles – carbon copies at a time when photocopies did not yet exist.

At the time of the discovery of the Model there was the danger that people would consider it a fake. But I took the precaution of showing the Model along with 10 lines from one of Saunière’s letters to the Foundry, so that people could do a graphological study – for which 10 lines would suffice – to prove it was not a fake.

10 lines From Saunière’s letter to the Foundry

At the time, I thought this was enough. But certain people always wanted more. I realized that the revelation of the two letters would stop this suspicion, but it would also allow some people to identify and contact the Foundry, and to understand that part of attached pieces would reveal that they came from archives of the Pyrenees Orientales (the region of which Perillos is part) and that it contains certain details about the landscape itself – where the tombs are.

I knew that any advantage I had would disappear and that my effort would be doubled by those who had more means than I. Thus, I made the decision that I would never show more than those ten lines, which were clearly in Saunière’s handwriting. But this secrecy will now end, as we will show one part, a half, of Saunière’s letter and one of the carbon copies.

When can we expect that?

Certainly by the end of the year (2007).

Great. We will look forward to that.

4. As I understand it, Tomb 2 (the tomb of Joseph of Arimathea, according to Saunière) had been opened and violated by the time you discovered it. I’ve seen some of the artifacts you uncovered from the tomb. In your opinion, what was ‘missing’ that you would have expected to have discovered?

There are two tombs depicted on the Model. I leave it to Saunière to take responsibility for the titles he has them. One is indeed named Joseph of Arimathea (tomb 2). It has been violated, not by me, but before I discovered it. It is well hidden, deep, in a cavern, but nevertheless violated. Around the entrance, just a few centimeters in, there is money, weapons, pottery; various objects. But specifically the money is from different eras, some bronze and silver, some gold.

Some of the rings I discovered had their precious stones removed. We have reconstructed this and believe that based on the position of the money, it could not be in its original composition, for it is from different eras, thrown outside, and whoever did this violation, left that which is of little value, or was not interested in it. I do not know how deep it goes, that is to say the violation, but it is certain that not everything has been removed. It is difficult to access after a few meters. The second tomb has never been violated. It is intact.

Artifacts from Tomb 2

5. In the past you have shown a picture of Tomb 1 (that of Jesus Christ, according to Saunière) at various conference lectures. What precisely has stopped you from entering the tomb? Or have you…?

I have not entered the tomb, simply – well, because of the fact that it was not already violated. Originally I thought it was discovered at the same time as the other tomb – that identified as belonging to Joseph of Arimathea. I felt that the person who violated it had stopped at the second so they could do the same. But as they did not, there was perhaps an important reason why they did not do so. Perhaps it was something they left for later.

Firstly, I had no right nor means nor reason to violate the tomb. Secondly, I did not violate the first either and have not entered it deeply. This means that in the eyes of the law, I have not done anything that might have consequences. Violating the second location would be a violation of French national property. It is an archaeological treasure. It is furthermore a matter of conscience. What could push me to violate a sepulcher in such a cavalier manner, without knowing the cost, both financially and morally? It is a matter of conscience that has stopped me.

6. To your knowledge, are others aware of the tombs’ location?

Yes – but only in the past. Today, I am not so sure. Today, I think people have a knowledge that has been transmitted – has endured – in different environments; some religious, some neo-something, but they have lost the meaning of the knowledge. Take for instance the “Grand Relique” of an important and intriguing organization known as La Sanch. It is clear from other witnesses that in previous centuries, this knowledge was more widespread and some knew almost where or even precisely where these sites were located.

Specifically, I refer to Cassini, who in the first ever topographical survey of France spent almost 1½ years in Opoul, which is an extraordinary amount of time for a small territory, relative to the rest of France that he had to map. He lived in modest conditions in Opoul, despite the fact that he normally lived in luxury and was treated like a prince. One could say his conditions were almost miserable. Although he spent a lot of time there, he did not provide a detailed survey of Perillos, at least not the area that the Model depicts and where the tombs are. Cassini is not a joker or hoaxer. He was a scientist and a member of certain hermetic if not secret societies. He knew part of this knowledge.

Cassini’s peculiar map of Opoul-Perillos
(Courtesy of Société Perillos)

Then, in the 17th century, when the Roussillon is annexed to France, there is one royal notary amongst those chosen to make an inventory of that which will be part of this transfer from one country to another; his name is Courtade. His mission was to determine who owns what in Perillos. He too knows something of this site but without stressing it, he transmits the knowledge without knowing the importance.

A close up of André’s Courtade Document

7. Has you life ever been in danger due to the secrets you keep?

The sensation of being threatened, not really. But the sensation of being under surveillance, if only by someone curious, yes! There is proof for these statements. I received telephone calls that were taped by the answering machine that I had at the time. I was told to shut up – and I am citing what I was told. One letter said that I had 40 days to change my opinion and to denounce my research on the internet as being false, but that after this statement, that I should nevertheless continue my research and that they would make contact with me to discuss matters.

I have received letters stating that I would be killed if I did not stop. I went to the Gendarmes with this, who wrote down what was said and who of course requested the letter as evidence. But they said that if someone wanted to kill me, they would not announce this to me beforehand. In their opinion, this was a bad – a very bad joke. But there have been other acts of intimidation, including some that said they would do things to my daughter.

There have also been funny incidents with my telephone, or the internet messages that did not arrive, or that I could send; strange incidents with the postal deliveries. These are not imaginary, but real and I have written proof to back this up. And they are not isolated incidents. For instance, letters get lost, phones do not work, email too. But this is repetitive over a period of many years, so we can conclude there is something more to it. Finally, there is the Renseignements Generaux (French Secret Service) and other Intelligence agencies who have politely advised me to stop with my quest, abandon it, that it could become a great cause of concern for me.

Read Part 2