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Arcadia has news! Ok, so it’s not daily, but its still a great place to go for your Rennes-le-Château fix. Check it out, and don’t forget to register in the Arcadia Forum. And while you’re there - express yourself! Know something that Arcadia should report? If so, tell us here. Arcadia has also joined Rennessence, the Rennes-le-Château Newsfeed.
The Viking Serpent
The Viking Serpent
Clearly, first time author Harald S. Boehlke has been influenced by Lincoln’s findings both in Rennes-le-Château and Bornholm. However his findings in Norway (with Scottish connections) are fresh and substantive and will grip both the Rennes-le-Château enthusiast and history buff alike. The book also contains an introduction by Crichton E.M. Miller, author of The Golden Thread of Time: A Voyage of Discovery into the Lost Knowledge of the Ancients.
City of Secrets Website The publishers of City of Secrets have launched a new website in support of Patrice Chaplin’s controversial argument that Girona (Spain) is the source of the Rennes-le-Château mystery.
Chaplin’s new book
In addition to an interesting video interview with Chaplin, the website showcases two pictures of Rennes-le-Château priests in Girona; one of Bérenger Saunière and another of his brother, Alfred. The photos are notorious insomuch as their existence has been whispered since the book was first released. City of Secrets recounts how the Saunière brothers travelled to Girona with some regularity, however the photos in question are unmistakably fraudulent. They were presented to Chaplin late in her research and are believed to represent an attempt to invalidate the book and its provocative revelations. The tampered photos are thought to be the work of Society members upset that their existence has been exposed. Chaplin recognised the photos as fakes and wisely excluded them from her book. Unknowingly, they have been unveiled on the website by her publishers.
Saunière in Girona
Alfred in Girona
Here’s hoping the Society has a sense of humour. In addition to being able to conjure the Grail, they appear to be pretty good at Photoshop, too. www.cityofsecrets.co.uk is online now but still a work in progress.
Sauniere's Secret in English Respected researcher, writer and former curator of Bérenger Saunière’s Villa Béthanie in Rennes-le-Château, Jean-Luc Robin, has announced that his book, Rennes-le-Château: Sauniere’s Secret is now available in English.
Sauniere’s Secret The book, which has sold well in France, has been translated by Rennes-le-Château icon Henry Lincoln and is finally available, albeit in limited quantity, from the Librairie Atelier Empreinte bookstore (+33468742671) in Rennes-le-Château, or from its website. Sauniere’s Secret is a favourite amongst Rennes-le-Château villagers due its honest and un-sensational portrayal of the mystery. At the same time it also presents intriguing new evidence for the involvement of the Hapsburgs in Sauniere’s discovery. Essential reading for any Rennes-le-Château enthusiasts.
RLC Preservation Aid Researcher and author Jean-Luc Robin would like to make two announcements concerning the Rennes-le-Château preservation fund, APARC. The organization, which was formed to protect the heritage of the village and preserve its historical integrity, will hold its Annual General Meeting on the 10th of August in Esperaza at Robin’s establishment, Le Restaurant des Deux Musées. All are welcome (even those who don’t mind the mayor). Additionally, Robin and Rennes-le-Château icon Henry Lincoln will be hosting two seminars in support of APARC on the 25th of August; the first, from 10-Noon and the second form 2-5 pm. Each will be themed Rennes-le-Château in a Geo-Political Context. Admission of 20 Euros will be applied towards APARC. To book, call: +33 (0) 608 224 293.
Radio Rennessence Coming soon: Radio Rennessence! Radio days return as the united trust of Philip Coppens, Corjan de Raaf and Andrew Gough introduce Radio Rennessence; the spoken word in RLC hearsay. The new website will feature monthly audio interviews and breaking news on all things Rennes-le-Chateau. Look and listen for the launch of Radio Rennessence soon. Upcoming audio features will include Patrice Chaplin, Klaas van Urk, and a plethora of other esoteric notables, researchers, authors and insiders. It’s been a long journey – are you ready for the truth?
Radio Rennessence – Coming to an iPod near you soon
Lincoln Cathedral Tomb Setback Researcher, author and former 17 Questions participant Dan Green has experienced an unexpected setback in his quest to expose the truth about his alleged Lincoln Cathedral tomb / treasure. Green believes a tomb in the grounds of the Cathedral may contain treasure of the Knights Templar or even the bones of Mary Magdalene. In short, the previously scheduled ‘scan’ of the ground beneath the tomb has curiously been cancelled by church authorities who claim they lack sufficient staff to oversee the work. Green informed Arcadia that “Somebody somewhere behind the scenes has decided to exclude me from this Chess game, when there is so much going on at the moment. Why? Is it because I have got it right?"
Dan Green, next to the tomb he had hoped to ‘Scan’
Bloodline Bottled: Serve Chilled As rumours circulate of secret invitation-only screenings of the controversial Rennes-le-Château documentary, Bloodline, the producers of the much anticipated film have quietly updated their website with some explosive News, Research and Trailers. Curiously, two new Bloodline film clips have appeared on YouTube, posted by one Nicflamel. They include: Lastly, the producers have published new images, including the ‘Saunière documents’ as they were found in the bottles discovered by Ben Hammott in the vicinity of Rennes-le-Château. Bottle it, serve it, and let us drink it already!
Message in a bottle: the Sauniere documents
Ben Hammott Peer Review The Rennes-le-Château study group, The Rennes Group, held their spring assembly on Saturday the 28th of April in Oxford, England. The meeting featured Ben Hammott, the researcher formerly known as Tombman, whose discoveries are central to the soon to be released documentary, Bloodline. In short, Hammott claims to have deciphered clues in the church of Saint Mary Magdalene in Rennes-le-Château that led to the discovery of three bottles; each containing 100 year old documents, including one that has been carbon dated to over 500 years old. The documents appear to have been written by Father Saunière and possibly Father Bigou, two priests of considerable Rennes-le-Château renown. Hammott shared that each bottle contained clues to the location of the next and ultimately, the third bottle led to a treasure chest containing artefacts alleged to be from the marriage ceremony of Jesus and Mary. Guy Patton, Rennes Group master of ceremonies and author of the respected Rennes-le-Château book Web of Gold, initiated what amounted to a Rennes-le-Château peer review. He was joined by esoteric notables Lynn Picknett and Rat Scabies, amongst others. Although Hammott did not provide any physical evidence (he has in fact presented supporting artefacts at previous Rennes Group meetings), the insights that led to his dramatic discovery were supported by researchers Sandra Hamblett and Bill Kersey, who assisted Hammott in his quest. Not surprisingly, certain details were withheld pending the release of the Bloodline documentary.
Ben Hammott explains how his video camera became lodged in a cave shaft, leading to his initial discovery, some years ago
At the end of the day the inquest was intense, yet fair, and Ben, Sandra and Bill were able to answer the group’s primary questions without too much difficulty. The forthcoming Bloodline documentary will be sure to reveal even more.
A lighter moment: Lynn Picknett, Rat Scabies, Guy Patton and Ben Hammott share a laugh after Ben’s ‘inquisition’
Arcadia would like to thank the Rennes Group and Ben Hammott for allowing the proceedings to be photographed and reported.
Panama City Relic Quest The alleged discovery in Oak Island of a capsule containing bones and relics of an ancient patriarch (reference installments one, two and three of the ongoing story) has taken a dramatic new twist. The expedition, which started in Oak Island before moving to Auckland and finally London (where the discovery was analysed) is now headed to Panama City where a dig is planned in the ancient jungles nearby.
The scorned informant who broke the story a couple of months ago claim’s to be a junior member of the original expedition team. In recent weeks he has spoken more candidly than ever, requesting that his insights be posted verbatim on the Arcadia Oak Island Forum. In summary, they include the following new pieces of information:
Next stop: the jungles of Panama City
The Secret of the Abbes Tour Andrew Gough continued his Rennes-le-Château Secret of the Abbe’s lecture tour last week with a presentation at London’s Soho Club West, the Highroad House. Below is a picture of Andrew at his Ely Crypt London lecture, earlier this year.
RLC Mayoral Race Heats Up The controversy surrounding Rennes-le-Château’s May 2008’s Mayoral Elections continues. Early French court rulings have supported Jean-Luc Robin’s claim to residency, although the Mayor’s office has appealed this initial ruling. The respected Rennes-le-Château researcher has categorically denied rumours that he will run for Mayor in 2008. Henry Lincoln, who has moved to the Rennes-le-Château valley is committed to ousting the current Mayor, Jean-François Lhuilier due to alleged neglect and mismanagement of the village. Lincoln is unofficially heading up the selection process for Mayor Lhuilier’s 2008 opposition. Watch this space. On a side note, Robin has confirmed that his Summer Lecture series will continue and that his bar in Rennes-le-Château will re-open on the 5th of April, 2007. He also would like to thank well wishers who have sent their regards after his recent heart attack; from which he has recovered nicely.
The humble but powerful Rennes-le-Château Mairie
Oak Island Treasure Moved to London Arcadia has learned of further developments in the alleged Oak Island discovery. It seems the capsule (reference instalment one and two of the story below) discovered on Oak Island and subsequently moved to Auckland New Zealand for examination, has now been flown to London for inspection by various subject area specialists. Reports indicate that the capsule contains the bones of ‘someone extremely important, wrapped in muslin and cloth, coated with amber and tar’. Additionally, the team is said to have discovered a ring and gem within the capsule, with unusual markings. Further still, it has been reported that members of the research team who have come in contact with the capsule have encountered peculiar near death experiences, only to have inexplicably survived. Arcadia has requested pictures of the capsule or discovery site but has been told that the crew had all phones and digital cameras cleared before departing New Zealand.
An Oak Island Stone Inscription – now lost, was discovered and transcribed in 1866. Will the latest, alleged discovery soon be validated?
Bloodline Speaks The producers of the Rennes-le-Château documentary Bloodline have provided their first interview on the eve of the film's much anticipated release. Arcadia’s 17 Questions provides a rigorous look at the film's extraordinary discovery.
The Secret Church Rennes-le-Château enthusiasts will want to check out Geoffrey Morgan’s new book, The Secret Church; The Treasure of Rennes-le-Chateau. The book claims to have uncovered new discoveries regarding King Dagobert, Nicolas Poussin and the Treasure of Arques.
The Secret Church by Geoffrey Morgan
Saunière Society Spring Schedule The always excellent Saunière Society has confirmed their spring lecture schedule. As usual, the lectures are split between England (March 3rd) and Scotland (March 30th) and, and feature an All-Star cast of esoteric celebrities, including: Henry Lincoln, Filip Coppens, Ralph Ellis, Stan Hall, Maurice Cottertell, Dr Robert Feather, David Shayler, Alistair Moffatt, Ashley Cowie, John Ritchie, Robert Cooper, John Millar and others! Visit the Saunière Society website for further details.
The Saunière Society Symposia
Experts be Damned Punk legend and Rennes-le-Château authority Rat Scabies has launched a Rennes-le-Château think-tank, of sorts. The group, or forum, held its inaugural meeting this week, upstairs at Rat’s local, the ultra cool Griffin Pub in Brentford, England. In attendance were many Rennes-le-Château notables including Christopher Dawes’s (author of Rat Scabies and The Holy Grail – the single greatest book ever written on Rennes-le-Château, in Arcadia’s humble opinion), Clive Prince (Lynn Picknett sent her apologies but promised to reveal all, next time), Stewart Ferris, and an assortment of others, including, er, me. One of the evening’s highlights was a copy of an 1884 book that Rat that had acquired by Johann von Hapsburg, cousin of Franz Josef, emperor of Austria, and acquaintance of Bérenger Saunière. A review of the book (which is written in German) was presented and discussed. By the end of the evening the record was put straight on a number of matters, aided no doubt by the consumption of considerable quantities of liquid holiday cheer. Oh, and just to be clear, there is no truth to the rumor that the group has been named The Priory of the Dammed…
Rat Scabies and The Priory of the Dammed: Christmas week, The Griffin Pub
Oak Island Update: The Rumour Pit Arcadia recently reported a story that, if true, will be sure to dominate headlines throughout 2007. Arcadia has learned that researchers led by a wealthy London businessman have discovered a wooden capsule, believed to contain treasure, or a royal burial, in Oak Island.
Oak Island, Nova Scotia Sources say the top cone of the intricate structure has been removed, following 72 straight hours of extremely delicate work. It is believed that there is a capsule within a capsule, covered in either silver or tin-like metal, brushed to a high sheen. A research team scientist is said to believe that it could be silver paint on muslin, hardened by an ancient process. Intriguingly, Zygophyllum Dumosum petals, pollen traces of which were discovered on the Turin Shroud, have been discovered in near perfect condition at the head of the tomb, leading the expedition Botanist to comment ‘It’s like they were just put in the capsule. Uncanny‘.
Zygophyllum Dumosum: Arcadia will continue to use discretion in reporting on this presently unsubstantiated story.
From BLOODLINE to Bloodbath The promising, albeit beleaguered Rennes-le-Château documentary, BLOODLINE, currently scheduled for release in the spring of 2007, has agreed to be interviewed by Arcadia 17 Questions. The Producers are eager to set the record straight on a number of points, including recent criticism such as:
Let’s acknowledge the Bloodline Producers for agreeing to be interviewed, and keep an open mind regarding this intriguing and exciting new development.
The RLC Researcher Formerly Known as Tombman Rennes-le-Château researcher, and BLOODLINE Documentary contributor Ben Hammott, formerly known as Tombman, has revamped his website. Do have a look as it’s full of interesting information and some amazing discoveries.
The Website of the Researcher Formerly Known as Tombman
Rosslyn – The Backlash Much esoteric significance has been associated with Scotland’s Rosslyn Chapel, and many have linked it with Rennes-le-Château. The Hiram Key got the party started, and others such as Filip Coppens provided sensible introductions to the story of the enigmatic chapel, but it was not until Mark Oxbrow and Ian Robertson’s excellent ‘Rosslyn and the Grail’ did the backlash begin in earnest. Now, others are following suit, such as The Rosslyn Hoax.
Will the trend continue? Is the backlash deserved?
Oak Island Discovery Arcadia has learned of a curious new development in the Oak Island, Nova Scotia mystery. The capsule is be being examined by experts who have noted that its construction is designed in such a way as to naturally seize up and resist intrusion. It has yet to be opened for fear of damaging the expertly secured, 8-foot capsule. The find has been flown to a secret location in New Zealand where it is being x-rayed and studied.
Oak Island – Has the Mystery Just Been Solved?
Rat Trap Rat Scabies, punk rocker and hero of Christopher Dawes’s amazing Rennes-le-Château yarn, Rat Scabies and The Holy Grail, suffered quite a scare recently. Seems Rat fell into an open cellar at the home of MI5 agent and 9-11 conspiracy researcher David Shayler. Rat was picking up Shayler at his home in London and driving him to Scotland, where the researcher was scheduled to speak at the Sauniere Society conference, when he fell into the open cellar and hurt his back. Exhibiting true punk grit, Rat persevered and drove Shayler to the conference, bad back and all. Rat is photographed below (second to right) along with other notable esoteric A-list celebs, such as Lynn Picknett, Clive Prince, John Ritche and David Shayler, amongst others. Get well soon Rat.
The Rat Pack – Sauniere Society – Scotland
School's Out for Winter With the UK’s autumn conference schedule now complete, Arcadia looks back at the memorable performances of Lynn Picknett and Clive Prince. The King and Queen of thinking man’s history presented new and conclusive evidence in the Turin Shroud mystery, and generally dazzled audiences wherever they went. If you missed them on tour, don’t despair. Their revised edition of ‘Turin Shroud: How Leonardo Da Vinci Fooled History’ is now available, and contains loads of new information.
Lynn and Clive – in Concert
No More Red Bull for Société Perillos The dynamic duo of Philip Coppens and Andrew Douzet have been churning out articles over at Société Perillos like there is no tomorrow. Do you suppose they know something we don’t? If by chance you have missed any, do check 'em out; immediately – they make for essential reading:
Ralph Ellis Podcast Ralph Ellis, historian and author, has completed an excellent new Video Interview. Have a look, as Ralph has quietly emerged as a leading voice in ancient history studies. In his interview, Ralph draws on findings from his superb new double book: Cleopatra to Christ / Scota, Egyptian Queen of the Scots.
Ralph Ellis’s new double book
BLOODLINE Reaching Boiling Point It appears that the long awaited Rennes-le-Château documentary, BLOODLINE, is nearing completion. The website has an excellent trailer and some very alluring sound bites regarding the alleged discovery. The Producers of the film have this to say about their project:
The buzz surrounding the project is generating some interesting press coverage, criticism and debate, so be sure to check it out.
RLC Mayor Update It's all happening in Rennes-le-Château just now. As first reported in Arcadia's 17 Questions Interview with Jean-François Lhuilier, the Mayor has denied all wrong doing. Here is an update of what's transpired since that interview: o The Mayor's office has contacted Arcadia to express their pleasure with the accuracy of the interview published. o Henry Lincoln is purchasing a property in the area and is committed to reaching a conclusion on the alleged allegations. o The Mayor is now under scrutiny for his management of funds received from use of the village facilities, such as the church, by visiting film crews. o A petition has recently been circulated in the village requesting that the Mayor refrain from using Rennes-le-Château for further, paramilitary training. Complaints surfaced when recent training activity damaged personal property. o The Mayor is now providing regular interviews with the media, including this one from the La Depeche du Midi, dated 02 November 2006, and reproduced from Paul Smith's Priory of Sion Web Site.
RLC Xfactor Fancy a shot at the big time? Now that Rennes-le-Château has gone all Hollywood, it seems that home-made videos are coming out of the woodwork. And some good stuff as well. Here are two: o Henry Boudet
Arcadia and Atlantis Ok, so it's not Rennes-le-Château, but Arcadia web designer, author, researcher and good friend, Mark Foster, has had his first book published, co-authored with Simon Cox; An A to Z of Atlantis. The book is an excellent companion to anyone interested in Atlantis, or Arcadia, and is part of the A-Z Series by Simon Cox. Great stuff Mark!
RLC Icon Interview Our friends over at The Gazette and Portal of Rennes-le-Château web site have produced another excellent interview, this time with writer and researcher Pierre Jarnac: a genre icon with more than 40 years of Rennes-le-Château experience. Jarnac's insights are simply not to be missed.
Lincoln and Rennes-le-Château Dan Green, the foremost proponent of a link between the mysteries of Rennes-le-Château and Lincoln Cathedral, has produced some interesting photos that he believes illustrate some rather uninvited forces at work. Look for Dan Green in an upcoming segment of Arcadia's 17 Questions.
New RLC Research and Book Sauniere Society member Maxwell N. Field has published his first book, the excellent 'The Carthusian Connection: The Trail from the Cathars to Shugborough'. Max's research is quite new and fresh and should be of interest to any enthusiast of the genre.
Cemetery Gates Opened Reliable sources report that the Rennes-le-Château cemetery gates were opened in the days leading up to the recent (November 1) All Saints Day. This rare occurrence provided an ideal opportunity to examine the cemetery for allegations of recent diggings, of which none were apparent. The temporarily opened cemetery did reveal that the recently toppled tombstone of Abbé Bérenger Saunière (as recently reported in Arcadia's Interview with the Mayor) has been appropriately repositioned.
Abbé Bérenger Saunière's restored tombstone
Double Crossed? Philip Coppens and André Douzet have unveiled an exciting new discovery in Narbonne; the Cross of Hautpoul. Readers will recall that Narbonne is where Bérenger and Alfred Saunière each worked or visited and where they are likely to have cultivated their friendship with the Countess of Chambord.
The Mayor of RLC Lashes Out! Jean-François Lhuilier, the controversial Mayor of Rennes-le-Château, has spoken out for the first time regarding allegations that he is mismanaging the domain of Abbé Bérenger Saunière. Arcadia met with the mayor and captured his thoughts in a very candid installment of '17 Questions’.
Paradise Lost: HQ of Real Indiana Jones Demolished The former South of France Headquarters of the real Indiana Jones, the German Grail hunter Otto Rahn, will be demolished this month as part of a road expansion initiative. The Hotel-Restaurant des Marroniers in Ussat-les-Bains, in the Ariege Pyrenees, served as base for the reluctant Nazi and Grail hunter extraordinaire, from 1931 – 1932. The region immediately around the Hotel-Restaurant des Marroniers is rich in grottos and caves, alleged to be the very ones where Parsifal was initiated into the mysteries of the grail.
The last picture of Grail Central: Otto Rahn’s Hotel-Restaurant des Marroniers
Tomb Raiders Be Damned The newly discovered tomb of Abbé Louis de Coma, recently blogged here on Arcadia, has undergone further damage from treasure hunters. The tomb is clearly empty, as Arcadia can attest, so such vandalism is very disappointing.
Hide And Seek "The Search", a new series of Channel 4 programmes for 2007, hosted by Jamie Theakston, will be filming this week in Carcassonne and Montsegur. Author Kate Mosse will be discussing Cathars and Knights Templars as the featured expert for the segment, which will combine well-known monuments with lesser-known treasures.
Burning Down the Grouse A recent fire in the village of Perillos, in the valley of death – an area believed by many to be featured on Berenger Sauniere’s topographical model, has fueled the flame (so to speak) of the existence of two royal tombs in the vicinity of the village. Lightning was stated as the official cause of the fire, but impatient treasure hunters attempting to clear away shrubs in hopes of obtaining a better view of the alleged tombs is rumored to be the real culprit. Arcadia was there shortly afterwards, and took some pictures.
Rennes-le-Château Icon Interview The French Website Portail Rennes-le-Château has an excellent English translation of a three part interview with Rennes-le-Château icon, Jean-Luc Chaumeil. Not to be missed.
Brothers In Arms Roger Kersey, the brother of researcher and ‘Still Spins the Spider’ author Bill Kersey, has completed the translation of Gerard de Sede’s ‘Rennes-le-Château; The dossier, the impostures, the fantasies, the hypotheses’. Previously Bill translated de Sede’s ‘The Accursed Treasure of Rennes-le-Château’. Each makes for superb and essential reading.
So Arcadia Is No Longer The Rookie So Arcadia is no longer the rookie: A terrific new Rennes-le-Château web site has been launched, called RLC Research. Check it out. Amazingly, it has emerged fully formed, smart, funny, and extremely well designed. Well done!
Back To School The Rennes-le-Château study group, the Sauniere Society, are holding two lectures of note. The first will be held in Kent, England on the 14th of October; the second, near Edinburgh, over the weekend of the 11th and 12th of November. Feature speakers vary between venues, but include the likes of Henry Lincoln, Lynn Picket and Clive Prince, Andrew Sinclair and the hero of what is arguably the most entertaining Rennes-le-Château yarn of all time (Rat Scabies and the Holy Grail), Rat Scabies!
Nothing To Report (For Once) Lastly, Perillos aficionado Philip Coppens, the man who publishes more articles on Rennes-le-Château in a week than Berenger Sauniere did in a lifetime (See http://www.philipcoppens.com/ & http://www.perillos.com/ - in multiple languages no less) has reported to Arcadia that he has nothing to add at this time. Thanks Philip |o|.
Rennes-le-Château Preservation Fund Rennes-le-Château researcher, author and former overseer of Berengier Sauniere’s home, Jean-Luc Robin, has created a ‘Rennes-le-Château Preservation’ fund. The fund / association will use proceeds to investigate the legality of various actions taken by Rennes-le-Château officials, i.e. such as the recent removal of Berenger Sauniere from his tomb and his reburial into unhallowed ground. Those interested in contributing should address checks to APARC, and postin care of: Jean-Luc Robin
Message in a Bottle Ben Hammott (an alias, which itself is an anagram for Thetombman), first came to our attention when he reported a discovery several years ago of a cave with artefacts and a body, near Rennes-le-Château. Subsequently, Ben has discovered a bottle containing papers with clues, linked to Sauniere, which he unveiled at a Rennes Group meeting in Glastonbury this time last year (October, 2005). News from Thetombman camp is that Ben has just returned from Rennes-le-Château, where he completed some successful research, and is nearing the end of his quest. The Rennes Alchemist web site keeps us up to date. Go ahead then, tell us what you found Ben. Pleeeaaassssssse?
Speaking Of Alias's... Dan Green, author of 2005’s ‘The Lincoln Da Vinci Code’ and its 2006 sequel ‘The Lincoln Da Vinci Code and the Mystery of Rennes-le-Château’, has reported to Arcadia that he should receive approval to proceed with the scan of a tomb outside of Lincoln Cathedral in the next month or so, and is increasingly optimistic that the tomb will reveal secrets of great relevance to Rennes-le-Château. Seems the Discovery Channel is also considering featuring Dan and the Lincoln / Rennes-le-Château connection. Best of luck Dan! Oh, and you may want to ask Thetombman to loan you that alias for while – just for good luck!
Close Call Rennes-le-Château narrowly escaped torrential rains last week; rains that threatened to create mud slides and flash flooding throughout the village (I imagine everyone but the treasure hunters were pleased that it was no where near as bad as expected).
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